CAD/CAM Software

Wade Anderson:

Hey, manufacturing world. I'm Wade Anderson with Shop Matters, sponsored by Okuma America. This podcast is created to discuss all things machining and manufacturing. Today, I'm here in the studio in Charlotte, North Carolina with Dan Parry and Cooper Ferguson from DP Technologies. You guys would probably know DP Technologies as the ESPRIT CAD/CAM software. Welcome to the studio guys.

Cooper Ferguson:

Thanks, Wade. Thanks for having us.

Dan Parry:

Yeah, appreciate it. Good to be here.

Wade Anderson:

All right. So, CAD/CAM software. I come from the programming generation, back when I was doing 5-axis programming longhand without a CAD/CAM system. So, tell me a little bit about ESPRIT. For people listening that's never heard of ESPRIT software. What is it? What do you do? What are your strengths?

Dan Parry:

So ESPRIT is really the premier programming software for creating NC code for CNC machines. And really what sets us apart is the fact that we're a full-spectrum programming solution. So what that means is that we cover everything from Wire EDM to 5-axis machining and everything in between. And, there's really no other CAM developer that can tout those kinds of facts with confidence. So that's really what sets us apart.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. Cooper, tell me a little bit about your background. How long have you been in manufacturing in general?

Cooper Ferguson:

So I got out of college in 2005 and been in manufacturing since then. Started with a family company.

Wade Anderson:

One of the young guys.

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah, yeah. So I was starting out cutting wood and plastic, the easy stuff. And, I think it was 2013, joined Okuma. Learned how to cut the metals and all that as an AE. Spent five years there, and the past year I've been at ESPRIT.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. Very good. What do you do for ESPRIT?

Cooper Ferguson:

Application engineer, also.

Wade Anderson:

Okay.

Cooper Ferguson:

So, help with programming, do some contract work to support some bigger projects too. That we might talk about later.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. And Dan, what do you do? What's your title at ESPRIT? How long have you been with the company?

Dan Parry:

So I've been with the company going on 10 years now and I'm the applications manager for the East coast. Manage 12 applications engineers here on the East coast who have a variety of responsibilities from customer support to really high level projects, engineering services for our customers and really just a variety of applications-related responsibilities.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. So from an Okuma standpoint, one of the questions I hear a lot always revolves around post processors. If I'm talking to a customer, talking about a machine tool, can I get a post for this machine? Tell me a little bit about how you guys approach post processors and how you interact with Okuma from that aspect?

Dan Parry:

So post-processing really is one of the ways that we differentiate ourselves in the marketplace. And really what it's about is creating a global solution for our customers that is really comprised of several different components. So the post processor is obviously a part of that package, but there's also a very detailed machine definition model, which would be our digital twin of the machine. And then of course, any relevant documentation that would coincide with the other components in the package. But that's all put together as a solution for a particular machine.

Wade Anderson:

So I get a lot of questions from customers, anytime we're talking about Okuma equipment, they always want to know is there a post available for this machine? Especially the higher technology machines. Does ESPRIT have posts for every machine model that Okuma builds? And how does that look?

Dan Parry:

Yeah, so thanks to the Okuma certification process. We do actually have solutions for Okuma’s entire product line. This has taken us years to be able to build and it's a result of us putting multiple engineers inside of Okuma to work side-by-side with Okuma in order to achieve the certification for all of their different products.

Wade Anderson:

Okay, very cool.

Cooper Ferguson:

So all those thousands of machine, different variations that you guys can come up with at Okuma. We've got to have a solution for each variant of that. That's where that happens, is in the post.

Wade Anderson:

And you guys control your posts yourselves? You don't have third party resellers, things like that? Distributors?

Dan Parry:

No, the applications' department are the ones that actually control the development of the post processors. And the way we do that is through our relationships with the OEMs, like Okuma, where we work specifically with the developer or with the machine tool builder to have them tell us how the output needs to look because, historically, we were relying on the customer for this kind of information. So, in a lot of cases really, I mean especially if it's a new machine for the customer, they don't know what the output needs to look like. So really, historically, it was kind of the blind leading the blind on what the output needed to look like for a certain machine. So by leveraging our relationship with Okuma, we can have Okuma tell us exactly what the output needs to look like for a certain machine.

Wade Anderson:

So tell me a little bit more about the relationship with Okuma. I know you guys are partners and things. Tell me a little bit about your involvement with it and how you work with that? How does that benefit you? How does that benefit the customer?

Dan Parry:

So our relationship with Okuma goes back almost a decade now. I was actually brought on with ESPRIT specifically to manage the Okuma project and it was kind of a new endeavor at the time. We were...

Wade Anderson:

Did people think you were Okuma AE for a long time?

Dan Parry:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Because we're, still today, we have engineers who are stationed inside of the Okuma facility and almost function as Okuma engineers. I mean we work side-by-side with those guys in order to develop our solutions.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. And Cooper, you did a lot internally at Okuma. What's your involvement or how did you work with the partners and THINC group and as an AE for Okuma?

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah, so I worked both sides of this equation, I guess, as Okuma AE. Dan was always there to help with the ESPRIT support and we would reciprocate. So if he had a project to work on to check something with the post, I would help him with that. So it's really a good partnership, a good area to bring multiple services together and have one collaborative solution.

Wade Anderson:

Okay.

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah.

Wade Anderson:

So tell me a little bit about the sales model. How do you guys go to market? What does that look like?

Dan Parry:

So I would say 98% of our sales are done directly. So we have a direct sales model, which is really advantageous to the customer because it allows us to interface directly with the customer. As opposed to having a middleman or another party in between. And really, this is all kind of based on our customer support. Which is one of the big things that we sell on, is the fact that we'll get back to a customer in 30 minutes or less. And a lot of CAM developers are just not able to offer that kind of service. And the way we're able to do that is by having a direct sales model where we're interfacing directly with the customer. We have applications engineers in all three of our offices across the US, so Charlotte, Chicago and then of course we're headquartered in California, which allows us to cover all three time zones and really hold true to that 30 minutes or less of getting back to our customers for support.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. So tell me a little bit about automation. Automation is a big theme in industry in general these days. How's ESPRIT involved in automation?

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah, so just like you're seeing the trend for using robots and gantries and things, the hardware automation, we're seeing a similar trend on the software side. So we have a knowledge base manager in ESPRIT. You can think of it as four different managers, your cutting tools, default settings, speeds and feeds and you can get interpolated data based on known data. And then the process manager. So the process managers the big part of the automation, it's going to recognize features for you. So for pocket for example, I can recognize that pocket and know what it is. I can automatically choose the tools based on that logic built in and basically have most of my part programmed for me with a couple clicks of buttons.

Wade Anderson:

Okay.

Cooper Ferguson:

I'm working on a bigger project to do just that. And the initial goal here is 75% of the part will be completely programmed automatically. Working with a couple of other developers but it's a reasonable goal. It's something that we are seeing can be achieved.

Wade Anderson:

Okay, excellent.

Dan Parry:

So just to add to that, really what the knowledge base is about, is about taking all that tribal knowledge that exists within companies. So when you have guys that have been there for decades and they're the ones who understand all the intricate details about part processing and the machines that are on the floor. It's about extracting that information and using the knowledge base to organize it in a way that it can then later be automatically deployed, based on a set of rules that you use or define. And that's really where the automation comes in, is being able to have the software automatically interpret what type of operation needs to be deployed for a particular part.

Wade Anderson:

So Okuma’s got a mission statement that they passionately pursue a customer for life, and I think it's interesting. I recently heard about a situation you guys were involved with. Where you guys, as a partner, actually live that value as well. Tell me the recent deal that took place at Aerodyne.

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah, so we had a couple of weeks scheduled for training up there and I get there and 20 minutes into the first day, we're learning that they're kind of in the weeds. They're a little behind on a part. They really need to get production going. They don't have a great time span for training. They need their guys working.

Wade Anderson:

That's a common theme I see. Even when Okuma sends AEs to a customer’s new training. A lot of times, if it's at their facility, it's hard to get that training time because production needs are always there.

Cooper Ferguson:

Yep. So we have to be flexible. So I made a quick call, make sure everything's okay and we ended up doing about three weeks of contract programming and because of my background, I again, double check that it's all okay or Aerodyne agreed. I was able to run their machine, it was a VTM-2000YB. They had basically two shifts but only first shift was covered on this machine. So when first shift left, I kind of took over and it was good. I like to be hands on. I'm confident in the code that I'm putting in the machine. So all-in-all it was a good solution. We helped out, and the fourth week we went out and actually trained them.

Wade Anderson:

The VTM. This is a high tech piece of equipment that's a vertical 5-axis machine.

Cooper Ferguson:

It is. And this was the first time they were actually using it for a full 5-axis. This first time, they were actually using it for CX-type motion.

Wade Anderson:

Fantastic.

Cooper Ferguson:

It was the first opportunity because they were just now getting into using ESPRIT for it.

Wade Anderson:

All right. Excellent.

Dan Parry:

Really, what this situation highlights is the fact that, we're not just selling software to customers. We are supporting them throughout their entire process. We're introducing them to things that maybe they haven't done in the past and really this is all possible because of our relationship with Okuma. That's where we've gotten access to the information and we're able to then relay that to our customers and support them in all of their programming endeavors. But really anything engineering services related, we're able to help them with.

Wade Anderson:

What's new on the horizon? What's ESPRIT working on? There's a lot of buzz in the industry. I just returned from EMO, spent some time walking around the EMO show for a week and seeing some of the different themes taking place in the industry.

Wade Anderson:

IOT, industry 4.0. Things like that are definitely global buzzwords, but how does that affect you? What new products are you guys working on?

Dan Parry:

So the new version of ESPRIT is something that we've been working on for a long time and it's just been a lot of hard work and our customers have been waiting patiently for us to bring this new product to fruition. And it's really exciting because this particular version is a lot more technologically advanced than any previous version that we've released to our customer base. And we're starting to get it into the hands of users. And so far the feedback has been really positive.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. So tell me more about it. Are you guys involved in AI, things of that nature?

Dan Parry:

Right. So, that's one of the things that makes this new version of ESPRIT really exciting. Is that we are starting to incorporate artificial intelligence into the programming process. And really, what this does is streamlines the programming process for the user. And at the end of the day, makes them more productive.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. Can you walk through... Give me an example.

Cooper Ferguson:

So, one good example of that. You fully program a part on Indy 5000. All right? Maybe it has some round features that could potentially get into a lathe. You get it out to production, you're Indy 5000's down. A few quick clicks, change the machine and the software. It does all the work for you. You're fully programmed on a MULTUS now. And take it out to the MULTUS, cause it's free.

Cooper Ferguson:

It does all that work in the background. No one else can do that.

Wade Anderson:

Wow, that's interesting.

Dan Parry:

So really, what makes that possible is, what we refer to as machine awareness. So machine awareness is accomplished by being able to incorporate every intricacy about the customer's machine tool into our virtual programming environment. So everything from travel limits to acceleration, deceleration limits, spindle speed, tool change position. All those details are incorporated into our virtual simulation environment. And then that simulation environment can then communicate with the ESPRIT software in order to make decisions for the programmer and optimize the program.

Wade Anderson:

Okay, fantastic.

Cooper Ferguson:

Just like Okuma, you make the controls, it drives and all that, yourself. You can communicate better with it that way. We have the same concept, we make the poster cells, and we have the simulation engine ourself. So we can have that communication back and forth instead of just one direction.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. What kind of trends are you seeing in the marketplace? So I've been able to be part of some of the lunch and learns that you guys have done. You've done a few in Charlotte and some of the distributor locations, as well. Working with companies, quick change tooling and going from different machine models. What other trends do you see? What do you get involved with on a day-to-day basis that you think a certain part of the market segment may be utilizing but a broader spectrum maybe is not?

Dan Parry:

I think one of the biggest trends is probably the mindset of doing more in one, single operation. So I'm sure you guys see that too. Not necessarily one, single operation, but one machine. So as opposed to, historically, programming the milling features of a part on a mill and then taking it to a lathe to do the turning side of it or vice versa.

Dan Parry:

You're now seeing more multifunction machines and machines with multiple cutting paths and a whole lot of capabilities, so that the customer can essentially load up a piece of raw material and machine the part complete in a single machine.

Wade Anderson:

So we used to see a lot from people going from a vertical machining center to a horizontal machining center and trying to make that transition of going vertical to horizontal and 3-axis to 4-axis. Now we're seeing shops go from creation inception to straight to a 5-axis machine. They're kind of jumping that level of technology. They go from the days of cranking handles on a bridge port to eventually going into a 3-axis vertical mill. Now they're jumping straight into these higher levels of technology. The level of operator or level of skill that it takes a lot of times, you look at a MULTUS machine, those sometimes are 9-axis machines. What do you guys see or how do you help that process to make it easier for people to be able to run these higher technology, multi-function type pieces of equipment?

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah, I've seen a lot of shops prepare for a future by getting a 5-axis machine that might only use it as three plus two or four plus one. So what we can help them do is be confident in the code. If we program a 5-axis operation and post it, it's going to be good code. So even though it might feel scary or something new that they can do, they can be confident in at least that portion of it. So a lot of shops, I think, with the market where it was recently, they're willing to invest in that high tech machine even if they aren't ready to use it yet. But as soon as they get a job that has that potential, they can say yes.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. What about programming on the floor versus the office environment? Are you seeing most people doing everything ahead of time in the office environment then taking it to the machine tool? Are you still seeing a lot of shop floor programming?

Dan Parry:

We don't really see much shop floor programming anymore for a variety of reasons. Mainly because you're talking about, the machines are so high-end, so complex, so expensive. They can't afford to be programming and on the floor and have the possibility of making a mistake. They want to be able to program it offline in a safe environment where they can see all the collisions virtually and be able to make decisions before they get in front of the machines so that by the time they get in front of the machine, everything's proven out. You put the program in and you make the part.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. Very good. Any customer testimonials? Anything that's been unique that you've worked on? Here recently that maybe the greater majority of machine shops haven't seen or been part of before? Any new technologies you guys have helped create?

Dan Parry:

I mean, this kind of would go along those lines. But there was a situation recently where there was a mutual customer of ours and this particular situation is really symbolic of the relationship that we have with Okuma and why it's so important for us to depend on each other. Basically, there was a small job shop out in Arizona and the guy was getting into machining, some more complex parts. He had some pretty intricate impellers that he was wanting to make. They had some tight tolerances and really hard to achieve surface finishes and things like that. It was a pretty challenging little impeller part. And so in order to step up in his business and start making these parts that would pay a little better.

Dan Parry:

He invested in a high end Okuma machine, a new 500, 5-axis trunnion-style machine and started being able to program this challenging impeller part and was quickly failing. He was making his programs, putting his programs in the machine and was not making the parts successfully. It wasn't dimensionally accurate. The surface finishes weren't there. And immediately he was blaming the machine. And I mean he was at the point where he was almost ready to send the machine back. So this is where Okuma, the engineers in Charlotte, got involved. And of course they knew that they could make impellers on that machine. I mean, they do it all the time. So obviously there was something else going on here that that wasn't right. And so what they did was they came to me and they said, "Hey, would you mind making a program for this part?"

Dan Parry:

And so I said, sure. And in the meantime, they had taken the customers' program and basically duplicated the same situation in Charlotte that he had in Arizona. So same machine, same program, same work holding, same tooling, everything. And set up the situation and they made a part and of course using his program, it was a bad part. So, that was confirmed. And then they loaded the ESPRIT program and ended up machining one of the most beautiful impellers I've ever seen. I mean, even to this day, it was a really good representation of the part and of course it was very eye opening for the customer and for everybody because at the end of the day, you can have the most expensive high end machine in the world, but if you don't have the right software to drive it, it might as well be a boat anchor. And we really depend on each other and we kind of need each other to help our customers be successful. And that was a really good example of that.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. What about communication? There's always kind of a buzz in the industry on communications going from monitoring software or controls, back and forth. I know Okuma does a lot with tool offsets and things with automatic communication. Are you seeing that feed into the CAM systems? Are you doing a lot with machining parts? Like in a semi-finished state? Measuring, updating CAM information and then reposting new tool paths?

Cooper Ferguson:

Yeah. So we have a probing add-in that will do just that and it's very easy to use. It's intuitive. If you program toolpath in ESPRIT, the probing add-in's very easy to use, but you can potentially make a semi-finished cut, probe that surface, update your tool offset and come back and get a finished cut. So, that's going to be more accurate than just assuming that your offset is still good, of course. We can also prove the stock, that you put in the machine, and update the work coordinate on the machine. We're using the Renishaw cycles for this, but that's kind of a benefit because those are all proven, they're well worked out. There's nothing to, no bugs in the system, if you say so.

Wade Anderson:

Have you had any experience with non-contact measuring? Have you done any work with any of the companies that are doing 3D scans of parts, things of that nature?

Dan Parry:

Not yet, actually. There hasn't been any... I mean we are actually looking into some of that for possibilities for the future. But really right now, with probing, our focus is in process gauging and we kind of avoided this area for years because we always looked at it as, it's probing, leave it up to the probing experts and they kind of had their own software and way of creating the sub routines and it seemed to work well for everybody. But there was obviously a huge need to be able to incorporate probing into the CAM environment because the users want to make sure that, first of all, for collision detection purposes that they're not going to smash their $10,000 probe into the table. But also just for program verification to know that the probe is going to go and move exactly how they think it's going to move on the machine.

Dan Parry:

So we ended up incorporating probing and we support, obviously Renishaw is a big one, but Bloom and Marposs as well. We support all the big probing manufacturers and allow the programmers to incorporate that into their process because at the end of the day it is part of the process and they're doing everything, and everything else in our virtual environment. So, that really should be part of it. So it's been a pretty big focus of ours for the last few years.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. I talked to a customer, gosh, probably been two years ago now, but he was making assemblies and machining different components separately and then assembling them and through the assembly process, the components never get mated together exactly right, basically. And what he was after was to assemble the final component, put that in the machine and then go through and basically pro measure all the different aspects of the geometry and let that automatically feed back to the CAM system, update the posts, update the model, basically. Repost new code, send that to the machine and automatically cycle the machine to actually do the finished machining of the part. Have you been involved with anything along those lines? That type of structure?

Dan Parry:

Really, I mean that's the ultimate goal.

Wade Anderson:

That's where it's going?

Dan Parry:

Yeah, is to be able to take that information, the probing information and do things with it like adjust offsets or in this case, adjust the program. So that is definitely on the horizon and kind of the direction that things are going with-

Wade Anderson:

Closed looped, I guess you would say.

Dan Parry:

Yeah, exactly. In process, inspection and close loop programming.

Wade Anderson:

Okay. All right. Well I appreciate your guys time today. Appreciate you coming into the studio.

Cooper Ferguson:

Thanks for having us.

Wade Anderson:

Dan, if they wanted to reach out to you, what's the best way to contact you?

Dan Parry:

So the best way to contact us, I guess, would be through our website, which is espritcam.com. So ESPRIT and then CAM.com. espritcam.com.

Wade Anderson:

All right. And I'm Wade Anderson with Shop Matters. Anytime you have questions or ideas for future podcasts, reach out to us. ‘Til next time.